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We have
a lot of people in our culture who look at this and consider
it to be some kind of coddling or apologizing for people who
engage in pretty inexcusable behavior. Did you hear a lot of
that along the way, as you were working on the picture? And
even now, do you still get feedback from people who don't necessarily
get what you're trying to get across?
I definitely did all along, and to that part - I expected
it. But it always surprises me, too, just in the fact that so
many times what those comments are based on is people saying,
you know, "How could you ever think that this person is
a human being that's capable of doing this?" And
every time I look at those people and I say, "How many
men in our country went to Vietnam and justified similar actions?
And how many people go to war all over the world, or commit
acts all over the world, all the time on a daily basis and find
a way to justify those acts?" It's not about me
justifying those acts. It's about saying this is something
that is a fact.
As tempting as it is to be sheltered from it in our country
and say that we do not have within us the capability of doing
anything close to this, the reality is the overwhelming proof
is that we do. And when we know that, it's an important
thing to look at. It's not about saying it's OK
that she killed seven people; it's about saying people
can get to a place, under pressure, where they're capable
of doing horrific things, why and how are they working with
the same emotions that we are working with, to make those decisions.
And that's a chilling and an important thing to look at.
It's interesting to me, too, that that has been like a - that
has been such a classic tradition, not only with woman and men,
in what Shakespeare and Greek myth and whatever, but it's been
such a classic tradition with men, and so rarely are the movies
with men seen this way.
You talk about the men who went to Vietnam and justified
certain actions. Could you apply that same observation to what's
happening now?
Absolutely. Yes, I mean, I think absolutely. It's something
that is very heartbreaking to me. When I approached this story
- I've always watched a lot of true crime, and the reason that
I ended up ultimately making this movie is because she never
looked to me like a "serial killer." Serial killers
are usually sexual deviants who have some sort of shame about
their deviancy, and they kill people as a result of that.
This was completely different than that, and she always looked
to me much more like a war story, like someone who had once
been something, but had gotten to a place where they could carry
a picture of their wife and kids back home, but murder women
and children in this country because you learn to detach that
those little kids have bombs on them and they could kill - you
know, whatever - killed your buddy, whatever the case may be.
I think that it's definitely what's going on right now, and
I think that the hardest thing for me is that there's very little
outlet. I feel so badly for people who get pushed to that place,
because there's no outlet or voice in this world for expressing
shame, for the horror that lives within us, ourselves.
And when we stay in a really puritanical world, and we look
at it and say, "Good people do this, and bad people do
that." Well, once somebody crosses over to being bad in
Vietnam, and comes back to a world where that's still the way
it's perceived, what do they do with that shame, about the horrors
that they committed and the fact that they have that within
them?
It is not necessarily forgivable for someone like Aileen, but
it is something that is true. And for me, I was so touched by
making this film, by the kind of struggling, like Internet posts
that I would read of people trying to express their own shame,
of their own rage, being manifested in seeing a much more extreme
case of Aileen.
Would people be surprised perhaps to know how many
of us genuinely struggle with sometimes fierce issues of shame
and rage? I mean, is there a lot of this going on that we don't
necessarily know about, because "Monster" is the exception
to the Hollywood rule?
Yes, I absolutely think so. I mean, when you look at the basic
human emotions, they're the same. They are pursuit for shelter
and food, pursuit of love and procreation, and rage and violence
is a defense mechanism and, you know, it's extremely present
in all of us.
Roman Polanski was talking about "The Pianist" the
other day, and I thought his quote was so appropriate, when
he said, "People can do almost anything in any given circumstances."
It seems so obvious that we all have these things within them,
and when you have World War II and Vietnam and people - you
know, terrorism and people killing each other, for things that
they believe are right all the time, and then having to live
with that, not even to begin to talk about the murder and domestic
abuse and all of the things that happen within our own country.
This is obviously - a large portion of people are walking the
earth who have been involved in that side. It's not like that's
the dark - I mean, it is the dark side, but it's not that that's
like a bunch of aliens walking around. Somebody did those things.
While Charlize Theron purportedly gets plenty of credit
for her performance, Christina Ricci really stuck me as being
amazing as the monster behind the scenes. Did she do similar
preparation based on actual footage, or was that mostly in the
script, or she just conjured this up out of her own skills?
It was a completely different process. It's fine, and it's
reality and it's something that we all know. I knew going into
this film that the greatest thing that could ever happen - it's
a performance movie. And based on the history of those movies,
it's Robert De Niro that you're going to notice, and that's
correct. You notice the person doing the tour-de-force performance
like this.
The thing was, Aileen was someone that everyone knew what she
looked like, and I felt it was incredibly important that Aileen
needed to look like the story we were telling. You can't show
a drop-dead beautiful woman on the side of the highway and tell
the audience that no one is going to help this person, you know?
And people - visually we can tell when someone's lived a rough
life or drinks a lot or is homeless, and these are really important
details.
With her girlfriend, the reality of what her actual girlfriend
looked like, in the context of the world they live in, is that
she was cute. She was cuter than Aileen and she was very sheltered,
and she was a little chubby and, you know, kind of quiet and
all of these things. But she was missing a tooth and she a kind
of, you know, masculine haircut. And when I looked at that and
I thought about it, I thought to get another actress and have
her take a tooth out, would just push the audience a little
too far and would become like the "Beverly Hillbillies."
And the point was not what exactly does Aileen's girlfriend
look like. That was something that people don't know as much
of and it doesn't matter.
The point was to stay true to the relationship between them.
So, in that case, instead of studying one person specifically,
Christina and I talked a lot about what the dynamics were between
these two people. One is very independent - I mean, one is very
dependant, very naive. She romanticizes what she thinks Aileen
is doing, and that's her way of compartmentalizing the horror
going on is because she just can't quite grasp how serious it
is.
So, those things were very important, but then beyond that,
we tried to make someone who more to me mirrored what she looked
like in Aileen's eyes, rather than just push it so far out of
the audience's mind that they couldn't ever get into or understand
the love between these two people.
But it's been bittersweet, when I saw how hard she worked and
good she was, and how that - Charlize's performance is really
impossible without Christina being the kind of level of actress
that she is. So, you know, I was blown away by her, and also
being someone that came into it knowing that it would never
have the glory. It was never going to be the appreciated role.
Charlize has said that, unlike some movies where you
have three hard days, this was a marathon of hard scenes. Did
you do anything in particular, like at the end of the day, to
help people just kind of step away from this and get a little
relief before they had to get back into it the next morning?
It's funny, I wish I could have. I wish there was a way
- I was - the interesting thing is I had written
this script in a very short period of time, too, and I struggled
a lot with that myself. And the truth was, this was such a hard
place to go into. It was actually much more matter of -
the person who played Aileen, and this was paramount in my thought
process when I decided to cast Charlize - had to be strong
enough to go there and not come back for a little while, because
it was almost impossible. Not to say that you don't go
home and have a glass of wine and, you know, talk on the phone
to your boyfriend or do whatever to make yourself feel a little
better. Like there was a lot of watching junk TV, you know?
But I knew that there was not much we could do. It had to be
someone who could handle that. And so, instead, my job as a
director was her mental health. it really became almost maternal.
I had to be incredibly protective of her, and gave her all the
love I could, constantly had my eye on her and where she was
and made sure that she felt safe.
Beyond that, there was nothing I could do for her. I knew she
was in this dark place and I just made sure no one was making
it worse, at any given time, and that she felt safe and loved
and not judged.
Was there anybody who was behind you who provided similar
faith and support?
Yes, my producer, Brad Wyman, who was the first person I had
met and he had just, in a completely offhand conversation, said
to me, "Oh, yes, all these people are making serial killer
films." And I said, "Oh, that's weird, I've always
kind wanted to do a movie about Aileen." And I wasn't pursuing
doing a movie about Aileen at that time. And he said, "Oh,
just as a favor, I'll introduce you to the people that do them."
I ended up not being willing to do any of those deals, but
at the end of the day, when I finished my script, he was the
person who said, "Give it to me." And when he read
it he said, "I don't know if other people believe in it,
but I believe in it." And then, he was the person was confidently
went forward and said, "It's hers and she's directing it
and we're doing it." And so, yes, Brad Wyman. He was the
person who was believing in me that way.
And my boyfriend, Jesse Stern, you know, was by my side the
whole time, too.
What effect is DVD content having on the creative process
for you? Is it something that you embrace and enjoying doing,
or is it more of a labor that you wish that you didn't have
to do?
I'm in a continuing dilemma about it, because I've just had
a couple of conversations with other directors who were arguing
back and forth. One is a director who I have a ton of respect
for and who's done great films, and he saying that he will never
do like a director's commentary, because the work should stand
on its own.
But as someone who has learned a lot from other people's books
and DVDs and, you know, as a filmmaker getting to watch them,
it's kind of weird, because granted, you know, the general public
is getting a view behind the curtain in a way that they never
have before. And whether that's bad for the film or not, I don't
really know. But for me, deconstructing something, as a filmmaker,
doesn't kill its power for me.
I don't know. It's a tough one.
I noticed that there were no deleted scenes on the
DVD, and I wondered, with a pretty modest budget, did you have
extra footage or, you know, did you have to be conservative
in - you know, in what you spent and what you shot?
Well, the first thing is that actually there is going to be
- this whole thing happened so quickly. This was a movie that
was finished in November and came out weeks later. It was actually
a movie that should have come out this year, and it was only
because of, like, the amount of publicity that we've gotten
everything happened really, really quickly. And I went straight
from finishing the film into being on the award and European
press circuit. So, this is an initial release of the DVD that
they just had to get out what they could, in order to meet the
dates - the correct dates. So, there will be another DVD with
more - with footage and a director's commentary and bonus things.
But the truth is that it's been funny even working on that;
there's one deleted scene. I mean the movie, by the time - with
me being the writer, as well as the director, I was writing
at such a furious pace, and we had to shoot the whole film in
28 days. So, there was not a lot of fat and it had to be very
exact, by the time we went to shoot. Scenes were longer and
scenes were shorter and slightly different, but it's almost
exactly verbatim - the script.
When will that special edition come out?
I don't know. I think it might be around September. I'm not
sure
What is coming up for you next?
I don't really talk about what I'm doing, just because if
I hear it come out of my mouth, it sounds all wrong. So, until
the script is done, which should be not too long, I'm not really
saying what it is, but I'm writing it myself and I'm still -
have stayed open to reading a lot of scripts that have been
given to me. But you know, all I can say is it's not true crime,
and it's not a true story.
Do you have a dream project? Is there something that
you're not working on now, but is something that you've always
wanted to?
There's only one that springs to mind, which is, I think, actually
in development right now with somebody else. It was of the first
things I asked about. The only other bio pic I have been dying
to do my whole life, as strange as it sounds, is about Chuck
Yeager. My father was a fighter pilot, and I grew up in the
world of fighter pilots. And this sort of folklore about him
and the romance about life is something I really feel and would
love to do a movie about Chuck Yeager.
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